Curse

FireFox · Jun 11, 2008, 05:02 PM // 17:02

World Championships.

Angels Guidance · Jun 11, 2008, 05:02 PM // 17:02

I'm 'just laughing at the hopeless madness of it all'

Post of the forum:
/Signed.

Snow Bunny · Jun 11, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Avarre, excellent writing, top notch.

Musei Karasu · Jun 11, 2008, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

2. It's totally false that the "bad achievements" of GW1 will prevent customers to buy GW2.

I will not be buying GW2 unless a friend, or someone whom I respect says it is worth it.

Your statement is now totally false.

Chthon · Jun 11, 2008, 05:09 PM // 17:09

I agree with the emerging consensus that this is an epic post, and I agree with most of the points in it.

Most importantly, I, too, have reached the point where I can no longer deny that the devs really don't know what they're doing. For a long while, their behavior of catering to PvP, at the expense of thoughtlessly decimating PvE (can you say Soul Reaping timer?), was totally misguided, and made the game worse at every update, but at least I could grasp the rationale behind it. These days, I can't tell what the hell they're thinking. The purposes behind the updates appear schizophrenic, at best, and their impact is scattered and contradictory.

I think Avarre is probably right that the reason for this is that the devs don't play their own game nearly enough, particularly PvE, and don't have the faintest clue which voices in the community are worth listening to.

The main result of my loss of faith in the devs knowing what they're doing is that I'm not going to be buying GW2. I've long since grown weary of having to engage in constant forum fighting to speak up for a PvE experience being ruined by Izzy and pals without even being aware that they're ruining it, and that's left me dubious on GW2 for quite some time now. But the now-incontrovertible revelation that the devs haven't a clue what they're doing with GW1 gives me much stronger reasons not to come back for GW2. First, since they haven't been able to identify what they got right with GW1 well enough to reliably do it again, or even to avoid breaking the best parts of their game, I really don't have any reason to believe that they'll get things right with GW2. Second, even if they do somehow get things right, I have no reason to believe that they won't mutilate it with updates, just like they did GW1.

Now, I did buy 3 GW1 sequels, didn't I, so why should anyone believe me when I say GW2 is not on my purchasing list? Because GW2 is not linked to GW1 in any meaningful way. The first big round of let's-ruin-the-game nerfs was sprung on me after I'd already pre-ordered Factions. I remember thinking to myself that I probably would not have bought it if I had known about that update beforehand. I went into NF and GWEN with serious reservations, because of the then-emerging pattern of PvP-oriented nerfs with total disregard for their collateral damage to PvE play. But I had beloved characters by then -- characters who deserved new adventures and new armor, even if a-net probably didn't deserve new money. Well, those characters are gone in GW2. Gone. All that connects the beloved characters keeping me in the game to GW2 is the totally underwhelming hall of monuments. That's not going to keep me around. With GW2, for the first time I'm making a buying decision (1) with some foreknowledge of a-net's modus operandi, and (2) without my beloved characters putting a thumb on the scale. I'm not buying GW2.

I should say that I'm not quite as far gone as Avarre. There are some changes to GW1 that could be made that would convince me that maybe there's some hope for the devs after all. (Hint: Start with Soul Reaping.) But, I'm not getting my hopes up that that's going to happen.

The one major point where I disagree with Avarre is on the PvE/PvP Split. PvP was going to die anyway. It could not be saved. The split was the best chance to save PvE. Of course, it looks right now like they're going to bugger that up too, but it was still the right decision. I agree with Avarre's vision of what PvE should have been -- no stat pumping on monsters, no population pumping on monsters, better monster AI, better monster builds, more opposing-PvP-team-like overall. And I also agree that a-net's failure to follow that vision of PvE was the "original sin" that made it impossible to do right by PvE or PvP without harming the other, and has ultimately brought us to this low point. But I think, given how irreversibly big that failure is, that the PvE/PvP Split was the best choices among a-net's available options.

For much the same reasons, I think that some limited degree of overpowered PvE-only skills is necessary. Just enough to counteract the stat-pumping, no more. It would be better to un-stat-pump the monsters and remove the overpowered PvE-only skills at the same time. But, since the stat-pumping is here to stay, the PvE-only skills that counteract it need to stay too.

Taisayacho · Jun 11, 2008, 05:10 PM // 17:10

B-E-A-Utiful.
/signed x infinity

Saraphim · Jun 11, 2008, 05:12 PM // 17:12

/good post. I actually do agree with most of it. From a personal subjective viewpoint I don't care that much about over-powered skills that I don't use. However, those among other things have damaged the game as a whole, irreperably.

However, I also agree with this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Way Out

Guild Wars has run it's pace. Online games die all the time. Anet is a "company" that is catering to it's fanbase, not the veteran player that started in beta, k. In order to move forward, both profitably and logically, Anet is creating a new game to stay current and relevant in an ever-changing market. Releasing expansions or further campaigns for GW is going to detract and deter development for a new game that I am actually pumped about. As a fan of Guild Wars, I trust that the next game is going to be better than this one, with more content and features. Guild Wars as I know it was a great game... and I emphasize "was". It just doesn't hold up anymore with other online games. GW2 is going to be a good game. I trust that. Otherwise, I move on to a game that will give me the years of enjoyment I have extracted from this game.

I sincerely believe that many of you feel like you are losing a family member, or worse, your identity. If Guild Wars dying is causing you mental or emotional problems, please contact: http://www.olganon.org/
They will help explain what you are going through and how they can help. Thank you and have a great day!

I've more or less ground to a halt with GW now, I mostly just do the odd bit here or there to stuff things in the HoM. But really, this game is winding down and it'll be time to move on soon. Having experienced AoC and watching how it shouldn't be done I'm hoping Arena.net will deliver the goods for GW2.

Greedy Gus · Jun 11, 2008, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

*reads OP*

Did I just read the best post in the history of Guild Wars forums? I think so.

Vicious lies

But yeah, very solid post summing up the problems with the direction of GW non-pvp development. To those who are pointing out that the game has been out for awhile, has a one-time fee, online games die all the time, etc: direction matters greatly, when you're supposed to be showing the customer base a greater understanding of your game and good judgement in order to keep them marching with you into a sequel.

FlamingMetroid · Jun 11, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

toasting in an epic bread
/signed

Yoshikuni Mahsu · Jun 11, 2008, 05:14 PM // 17:14

First wall of text that I truly enjoyed reading, you and sha should become journalists. Alot of this has been hinted at and thought of somewhere throughout these forums, excellent thread bringing it all together in a nice smooth post.

DreamWind · Jun 11, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

It makes me laugh how almost everybody who is supposedly "objecting" to the OP proceed to post an argument that completely misses the point of the OP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

Vicious lies

Ok maybe so. I just can't think of a better post at the moment.

Snow Bunny · Jun 11, 2008, 05:19 PM // 17:19

If this received any reply at all from Anet I'd be astounded.

Abnaxus · Jun 11, 2008, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

The main result of my loss of faith in the devs knowing what they're doing is that I'm not going to be buying GW2.

Oh poor

GW2
Yeah yeah, we'll see what you do IF eventually GW2 will turn out to be a great game, and your friend will tell you how great it is and show you the game on their monitors playin like crazy, and you'll see the screenshots and reviews and all that stuff, I want to see you not buying it "because I have no faith in the devs bla bla bla" ... yes I want to see you LOL

Edited: I bolded the IF to clarify my idea ^^

Miss Eisei · Jun 11, 2008, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraphim

/good post. I actually do agree with most of it. From a personal subjective viewpoint I don't care that much about over-powered skills that I don't use. However, those among other things have damaged the game as a whole, irreperably.

However, I also agree with this:

I've more or less ground to a halt with GW now, I mostly just do the odd bit here or there to stuff things in the HoM. But really, this game is winding down and it'll be time to move on soon. Having experienced AoC and watching how it shouldn't be done I'm hoping Arena.net will deliver the goods for GW2.

+1 to your post, i spend my time on another mmo besides GW
And now i need a drink after reading all of Avarre's awsomeness

Fistandantilus_12 · Jun 11, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Great read, it will be interesting to see if ANET does respond.

Abnaxus · Jun 11, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fistandantilus_12

Great read, it will be interesting to see if ANET does respond.

I hope they won't, and use their time in a more productive way ...

Avarre · Jun 11, 2008, 05:28 PM // 17:28

I'm not sure why I'm being accused of being addicted to the game or in need of help when I left the last guild I was core in last October, and effectively stopped playing by January. At no point playing Guild Wars was it the only game I played or put effort into.

m o n k · Jun 11, 2008, 05:29 PM // 17:29

very well written. you should write a book :P

DarkNecrid · Jun 11, 2008, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

I hope they won't, and use their time in a more productive way ...

ya because you know it totally takes SOOOO LONG to type a reply. I'm sure if Regina or someone replied to this, it'd totally screw up Guild Wars 1 or 2 soooo much.

No.

Tyla · Jun 11, 2008, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

I hope they won't, and use their time in a more productive way ...

Well I hope they do. It extensively covers the persistant problems this game has been getting which are right now practically unfixable unless they take a heavy change.

They should at least know why their game has gone downhill, and they should also understand that people care about the game.

If you ask me, they made a great game, and screwed it up.

There's serously no other thoughts that can come out of it for me.